
	SDAST Chat meeting #67: Thursday 14th November 2002
	
Participants: Peter Kretschmar, Sami Maisala, Stefan Larsson, Niels Joergen
	Westergaard, Carol Anne Oxborrow, Jerome Chenevez

Subjects discussed: Wisdom 
		Scientific results so far: LMX-3 and LMX-4
			Position offsets
			LMX-1 and CenX-3
		Background corrections
			Sun angle
			Empty fields
		Analysis scripts
		
Action Items: none


**** Logging Started : Thu Nov 14 13:53:07 MET 2002
> hello NJW -we're still the only two here. END
<njw> alone in cyberspace END
*** peter (~pkretsch@isdcul11.unige.ch) has joined channel #jemxadr
<peter> Hello there - greetings from veeerrrryy rainy Geneva!
> Hi Peter! How are you - Jerome says you're woking very late every night. END
<peter> Stefan will be with us in a minute END
*** larsson (~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk) has joined channel #jemxadr
<peter> Not every night, and defnitely not today, bujt it's true I'm working late a lot. END
<peter> I'm a bit tired after last night's efforts, but Stefan has done the same. END
> Hi Stefan! How's the barn? Have you been badly scalded by the hot water yet? END
> Does anyone know if Sami
> s coming to the chat - I haven't heard from his in ages. END
<larsson> Hi. Well both the hot water and the cold water (pooring down outside)! END
<larsson> I may also inform you that you have just missed a great birthday cake.
<larsson> Peter how old are you now????????? END
<peter> I'm at the jolly age of 38 - two more years to wisdom :-) END
> Wisdom ain't all it's cracked up to be! Sami's joining us as soon as his new
> system can find the IRC software, so we'd better get started. jerome's busy
*** smaisala (~smaisala@gemini.astro.helsinki.fi) has joined channel #jemxadr
> doing stuff for the hardware guys, so he won't be joining us. END
<peter> Hi Sami! Good to 'see' you. END
> happy birthday Peter. END
> Hi Sami - that was quick! END
<smaisala> Hi There! I had spme technical problems... END
<smaisala> spme=some. END
> Okay, first on the agenda: Scientific results so far
> Perhaps Peter and NJW would like to kick off on this one. END
<peter> Who starts, Niels Jrgen? END
<njw> This one is new:
<njw> LMC X-3 and LMC X-4 are both found 8-9 arcminutes from their catalog
<njw> positions. I've just made a summary of the results from most of the
<njw> LMC X-3 pointing.
<peter> You mean in JEM-X 1, right?
<njw> I'm confident that the coordinate transformations are correct.
<njw> To Peter: Yes JEMX 1 so far. I still have to look for JEMX 2.
<njw> From RA_SCX and DEC_SCX and POSANGLE I can reproduce RA_SCZ and DEC_SCZ
<njw> as given in swg_prp.fits. The misalignment matrix can do the rest.
<njw> That means that we have to new? sources - at least they are not in my
<njw> catalogue.
<njw> END
*** jerome (~jerome@uhuru.dsri.dk) has joined channel #jemxadr
> Hi jerome! END
> Tell them about the new source, NJW. END
> Perhaps someone knows what it is. END
<peter> Well, our catalog has some Jxxx sources, but finally sources are so close there in some regions that you will always match with some ...
<jerome> Hello! I have something urgent to do
<peter> But are you saying that you do not believe that these are LMC X-3 and 4 or dow you have additional sources? END
<jerome> this afternoon, so i am not going to tell a lot
<jerome>  but just look... END
<njw> I've found LMC X-4 in JEMX 2 in 001061260050   END
<njw> I mean additional sources, 1 from the Cen X-3 pointing and 1 from the
<njw> LMC X-1 pointing. END
<peter> Where, which ScW, what parameters? END
<peter> Btw, we saw signs of LMC X-4 in several science windows of JEM-X 2 results but typically the noise in the image precluded the source finding to pick it up. END
<njw> I'll tell you a little later END
> Has anyone found any pulsations in these sources? END
<njw> With my selection src_find has picked it up with a detection significance
<njw> of 22 in one case (the one mentioned) END
<larsson> I have not. But we have also sorted out a few bugs and will try again.
<larsson> But so far no pulsations. END
> Any other scientific results so far? It seems rather reassuring that we're getting
> pictures that are no worse than before we went to lower voltage, though
> presumbably we're losing the lower energy phtons now. END
<peter> I have some questions for you, Niels Jrgen:
<peter> (1) At least to me it seems that the position (RA, DEC) from the SRCL-RES is always a bit off the brightest pixel.
<peter> Do you see that too? Or is this just my impression?
<peter> (2) Will all of the 8-9' go into the misalignment matrix or will you correct something in IC files, or your code?
<peter> (3) Do you think that sorting the misalignment out will reduce the remaining systematic reconstruction noise? 
<peter> END
<njw> (1)I've seen that too in SKY._IMA. The coordinates quoted in SRCL-RES, however,
<njw> are based on the RSTI image, so somewhere in the image transformation there
<njw> is a 'loose' pixel.
<njw> (2) not sure yet. I'll experiment with the CORX and CORY to see if I can
<njw> get more consistent results that way
<njw> (3) No. END
<peter> Thanks a lot, next question:
> What are you doing with CORX  and CORY - taking out the dead anode stipes? END
<njw> I'm defining the origin of the coordinate system END
<peter> Assuming I set up the test data, will I get updates of j_ima_shadowgram and j_ima_basic_recon for the urgent issues (radiusLimit, FPE) soon? END
> So we've still a ways to go with using the position corrections to smooth out
> those dead anodes like Carl was suggesting at the meeting the other day? END
> I'm suprised that no one's more excited about that unidentified source you've
<peter> Wouldn't you rather want to do a 'flatfielding' of your shadowgrams in or after j_ima_shadowgram instead? That would seem cleaner to me ... END
> found - two weeks ago that would have had NL jumping up and down talking about
> Nobel Prizes. END
<peter> Before I do not have reliably wromking software and coordinates I understand, we cannot say if it's new or not. Also this is an area with many transient sources ...
> Could you tell us the coordinates of the found source so that we can go and
> look it up. END
<njw> To Peter (some 10 lines up): Yes, it should be possible to implement the
<peter> So yes, I want to go back and study the whole affair, but we need working software before anyone will believe us END
<njw> SPRs in shadowgram etc. END
<njw> Peter: we will get consolidated data for this PV phase as well ? END
<peter> As far as I understand, yes. END
> Any more to say on the science so far? END
> Sami, you're suspiciously quiet END
> So let's move on to background handling - as I think you've probably all heard
<smaisala> Just listening what is going on. I have noticed I am not included in email lists, so I have missed quite lot of information. END
> we found that rotating the images from one unit makes the background very nearly
> the same for both units, so it's definitely a mask artifact - this surely makes
> life easier for us, doesn't it? END
> Sorry that you're missing so much Sami, I'll make sure the email exploders here
> get your address added. END
<smaisala> Thanks! ENd
<smaisala> I think the instrument bkg is quite similar for  both units, but there might come some unexpectable fingerprints if we have situation of high radiation level or solar flare. END
<njw> Sami, have you looked at the background variation with solar angle?
> But as a first approximation dealing with the mask artifacts the same for
<njw> It seems that we get scattered X-rays (from the Sun) into the detectors
> both instruments would be pretty good wouldn't it? END
<njw> when the Sun angle is less than 90 degrees. END
> Niels seemed to think we were getting some diffuse scattering from the holes
<smaisala> This sun angle problem was one of those things we included in our bkg software. If we can found straight correlation between sun angle and bkg we can quite easy make models to database. 
> of the mask at sun angles less than 90deg. END
> How soon will you be looking at data to determine how the background varies
> with sun angle Sami? END
<smaisala> Hmm, I'd like to see that in my computer. What is the 'best' data to see this effect?  
<njw> Quite early there were some pointings to tune the Fine Sun Sensor. Those
<smaisala> I start to look the data immediately I have all the data downloaded here! END
<njw> data might be useful in that respect END
> Yes, and the first empty field pointing was also notable for the amount of
> background - that would be revolution 0005 END
<njw> Stefan, are you copying data to the archive in Stockholm ? END
<peter> I think you should try to give Sami ScW numbers. Also he may need actual position angle data, since the attached auxiliary data is often just a dummy for the first pointings. END
<larsson> I will try to bring home a tape with all Jem-X data up until now. + associated
<larsson> data. END
<njw> Yes, we will try to find the relevant data for Sami END
> I've got lots of nice empty field images on my ISDC account that I made for
> Rudi, to double-check his CenX-3 procedure - would you like me to send them
> to you Sami, so you don't have to go through the bother of processing all those
> empty fields again? END
<smaisala> Yes CAO, that could be really nice. END
<peter> For the spectra we will have to gather data now after the HV/gain change. END
<smaisala> Is there any document of the ScW:s where is listed the pointings? It could be useful. END
<peter> Well there is the planning information, then we also get historic attitude data from MOC after the fact but you may have to correlate that manually wuth the Science Windows. END
> I'm not at all confident in the energy corrections even before the high voltage
> change - as I noted in my SPRs j_calib_gain_fitting needs a bit of a tuneup
> to handle the real calibration spectra - but's it's probably okay for a 
> preliminary look around - except for the Fe sources which have not given good
> results thus far (more about this later - just wanted to let you know to
> proceed with caution, Sami). END
> Anything else to say about background handling? END
<peter> Is there a clear plan for action between Sami and DSRI? END
> next: Analysis scripts - how's it going Peter? END
> I don't think there's an agredd day-by-day plan - we've got a background
> correction plan that says we'll look at the empty fields and I think Helsinki
> should do this because that's where both Sami and our Background Tzar are. END
<peter> Sami, you agree? Do you know well enough what you should do? END
> What say you NJW? END
<njw> Naturally we must be in good contact with Sami, but I agree that the lead
<smaisala> Yes I know what I should do. I have one more question. What is the correlation between auxiliary and instrument data?
<njw> should be in Helsinki END
<peter> Sorry, I don't quite get the question. 
<peter> What I can tell you is that for the early data the pointing IDs will not match between auxiliary tables and the actual science windows.
<peter> On the other hand, at least for historic data one can correlate by the time information. END
<smaisala> OK. that complicates little bit the bkg models creation. 
<smaisala> So, I try to analyze all empty filed observations as soon as possible and I will create the very first observed bkg catalogues. END
<smaisala> filed=field :) END
<peter> Good!
> Okay Sami I'm making a tarball of those results for rev0005 - it looks like
> I only have JEM-X2 to be starting with - but that should be enough to keep
> you busy for a couple of hours! END
> Any more to be said about background now? END
<smaisala> N 
<njw> N
<peter> N
> Okay, analysis scripts: what's the latest news Peter? END
<peter> Version 3.0.0 has been delivered earlier this week.
<peter> But yesterday saw some additional improvements on my side.
<peter> And if Niels Jrgen delivers his j_ima_ tools again, I should redeliver an updated version soon.
> So should we continue using the integration version for science analysis? END
<peter> Absolutely, until you hear otherwise. This also because several tools are hacked under that environment. END
> Any other scripts comments? END
<peter> All this must be consolidated, I hope to do that together with Silvia next week. END
<peter> This means that I need redeliveries of the executables for the SPRs as well (see integration page). END
<peter> Btw, to make Sami worry :-) - this weekend we should for the first time good auciliary data immediately so I will start giving the j_bk_ tools the kind of workout the rest has seen ... END
<peter> auxiliary data ...
> I'll certainly try to get my SPRs done early next week. eND
<peter> Very nbic
<peter> Very nice, thanks. END
<smaisala> Thanks Peter :) END
<peter> If we want to give a good impression at the ISWT Meeting in less than two weeks, we must continue the high effort, I fear. END
> Okay, next point: Detector problems (large and small). What can we do with
> the problems that we've seen to date? END
<njw> We must map them in the IC data i.e. IMOD-GRP: DETE-MOD should show the
<njw> weak or missing anodes. The ISSW must then take this into account for
<njw> optimal performance. END
> Any other comments? END
> I think we'll have to stop here: one question so that I can book my plane
> tickets: will we be starting the SDAST meeting at ISDC after lunch, or should
> we plan to arrive the day before the meeting? END
<peter> That's up to you guys, but I think after lunch will be enough. END
<larsson> I will be here the full two days, but I can probably keep my self busy. END
> In that case I'll travel in the morning of the first day - I don't want to be
> away from the family any longer than necessary. Can we handle the other matters
<njw> I'll also be there - finishing my 'duty' with the meeting END
> by email (remembering Sami!)? END
<peter> I think so END
<peter> So are we wrapping up? END
> I have to go pretty soon - the little ones need me END
<peter> We too :-) (working on the guilt complex ...) END
<peter> Anything sensible anyone of you still wants to say, have you alll sneaked off? END
<smaisala> N. 
<larsson> Noooo
> Could someone else start logging from here onwards and send me the file? END
<peter> It seems we are finished anyhow - one way or the other, so I propose we call it a day. END
<njw> Alright, good bye, have a nice analysis session END
<peter> Goodbye everyone! END
*** njw has left channel #jemxadr : (njw)
*** Signoff: peter (ircII/tkirc)
> Goodbye all! END
